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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK." SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS. I'M CALLIE

CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7. TONIGHT, 2022: THE YEAR AHEAD. WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.ùAND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS. WE ARE

WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY. 2022, THE CALENDAR MAY HAVE FLIPPED BUT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE FACING OLD PROBLEMS IN THIS NEW YEAR. THE IMPACT OF COVID-19

WITH ITS DELTA AND OMICRON VARIANTS IS STILL WITH US, SO IS THE ONGOING DEBATE OVER VOTING RIGHTS AND BLATANT VOTER SUPPRESSION. PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE STILL SUFFERING THE BRUNT OF THE

PANDEMIC-FORCED ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, WHILE THE POLICE BRUTALITY WHICH LED TO GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER CONTINUES, AND AS SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE UNDER ATTACK FOR TEACHING THE RACIAL HISTORY OF THE

NATION-- POOR COMMUNITIES ARE DEVASTATED BY WEATHER EVENTS LINKED TO CLIMATE CHANGE. POLITICAL VICTORIES BY PEOPLE OF COLOR, INCLUDING BOSTON'S OWN MAYOR MICHELLE WU, ARE A POSITIVE

CONTRAST TO THE INTENSIFYING POLITICAL DIVISIVENESS. BUT HOW WILL THE EVENTS OF LAST YEAR FACTOR IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE OF COLOR THIS YEAR? JOINING US REMOTELY: RENEE GRAHAM, ASSOCIATE

EDITOR AND OPINION COLUMNIST FOR THE "BOSTON GLOBE'S" OP-ED PAGE; RAHSAAN HALL, PRINCIPAL AT RAHSAAN HALL CONSULTING AND THE FORMER DIRECTOR FOR THE RACIAL JUSTICE PROGRAM AT

THE A.C.L.U. OF MASSACHUSETTS; PHILLIP MARTIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, GBH NEWS CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING; AND MALIA LAZU, C.E.O. AND FOUNDER, THE LAZU GROUP AND LECTURER AT

M.I.T. 'S SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT. WELCOME TO YOU ALL. I'M GOING TO START THIS WAY AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO DO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO ASK: IS

THERE A WAY TO FIND A COMMON THREAD THAT LINKS ALL OF THESE VERY IMPORTANT EVENTS THAT IMPACTED PEOPLE OF COLOR? SO I'M THINKING COVID, POLICE BRUTALITY, THE EDUCATIONAL DEBATES ABOUT

CRT, THE VOTING RIGHTS, ALL OF THAT? AS YOU LOOK BACK, IS THERE A COMMON THREAD RENEE THAT YOU COULD SEE? >> FOR ME IT'S CLEARLY RACIAL INJUSTICE AND WHITE SUPREMACY. YOU KNOW

THAT'S WHAT'S LINKING ALL OF THESE ISSUES, WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INEQUITIES THAT HAVE BEEN AMPLIFIED BY COVID, THEY ALREADY EXISTED BUT THEY BECAME MUCH MORE

APPARENT FOR MEDIUM WHO ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION DURING THIS PANDEMIC. CERTAINLY WHAT'S GOING ON WITH SCHOOLS, UNIVERSITIES WITH THE TEACHING OF AMERICAN HISTORY. I DON'T EVEN LIKE

TO CALL IT CRITICAL RACE THEORY, BECAUSE WE ARE CALLING IT AMERICAN HISTORY AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO ELIMINATE. ALL OF THESE ARE LINKED BY PEOPLE'S ADDICTION REALLY TO

WHITE SUPREMACY AND WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SUSTAIN IT. >> Crossley: HOW WOULD YOU AND TO THAT RAHSAAN? >> WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE DEATH THROES OF WHITE PREMCY. IT'S

THE LAST HERKS AND JERKS, OF THE MOVEMENT. PEOPLE SHOWING UP AT SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS, MASK MANDATES, SUPPORT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT UNLESS LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TRYING TO STOP YOU FROM

OVERFLOWING THE GOVERNMENT. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A BELIEF, IN A CERTAIN TYPE OF NATION, AND SEEING THAT FADING AWAY, PROVOKES THIS TYPE OF VIOLENT REACTION. AND WE'RE SEEING IT

ACROSS MANY SECTORS, LOOK AT VOTING RIGHTS, THE NUMBER OF RESTRICTIVE VOTING LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED. THE INABILITY NOR LEGISLATURE TO PASS THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT, SPEAKS

VOLUMES ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE IN THIS NATION. >> Crossley: PHILLIP. >> I AGREE WITH BOTH MY COLLEAGUES. WHAT YOU ALSO SEE, THE THREAD WITHOUT QUESTION IS

WHITE SUPREMACY AND SYSTEMIC RACISM. BUT WE'RE ALSO AT A CROSSROADS BETWEEN THE POSSIBLE SUCCESS OF THE BACKLASH, AND THE ONGOING PRO GLETION OR ONGOING -- PROGRESSION OR ONGOING CIVIL

RIGHTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE CROSSROADS I'M TALKING ABOUT IS BECAUSE WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE SOME PEOPLE ARE ACCEPTING AUTHORITARIANISM AS THEIR LOGICAL CONCLUSION TO

THIS COUNTRY'S CONSTRUCTION. IT IS A WAY FORFUL OF THEM -- FOR MANY OF THEM TO RETAIN THE PEOPLE LIKE DONALD TRUMP IN POWER, AND TO BASICALLY TO FIGHT OFF THE ONGOING GROWTH OF BLACK

AND BROWN COMMUNITIES. ASIAN-AMERICAN, NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITIES IN THIS COUNTRY. SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT A CROSSROADS BETWEEN PROGRESS AND BACKLASH. AND THE QUESTION OF 2022, IS: CAN

PROGRESS BASICALLY SUCCEED IN WIPING OUT THESE NEFARIOUS INCIDENTS THAT HAVE OCCURRED OVER THE PAST YEAR AND MANIFEST IN AS RENL 8 SAID -- RENEE SAID THE FALSE ASSUMPTION ABOUT CRITICAL RACE

THEORY WHICH IS REALLY THE TEACHING OF AMERICAN HISTORY AND THE ADVANCEMENT OF VOTING RIGHTS. WILL WE SEE THOSE THINGS TAKE SHAPE IN 2022. >> Crossley: OKAY, I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR

THAT CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS, AS IT IS BEING DEBATED, IS ABOUT SOMETHING NEFARIOUS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> Crossley: BUT IN FACT IT IS TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOLS, NOT IN QUELL AND

IT HAS -- K-12, AND IT HAS DEINVOLVED INTO AN ARGUMENT WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE TEACHING OF RACIAL HISTORY IN SCHOOLS. JUST SO EVERYBODY IS CLEAR ABOUT THAT. OVER TO YOU MALIA HOW WOULD YOU

ADD TO THIS? >> YOU KNOW I WOULD ADD BY ACTUALLY BRINGING IN A PHILOSOPHER AND SOMEONE WHO WRITES ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY, CHARLES MILPITAS. HE HAS THIS ESSAY THAT IS A GREAT READ.

IT'S CALLED THE EPISTOMOLO GHRVETIONY OF WHITE IGNORANCE. HE TALKS ABOUT HOW WHITE IGNORANCE IS AN IGNORANCE THAT FIGHTS BACK, AN IGNORANCE THAT DOESN'T WANT TO SOLVE ITSELF. THE

400 YEARS PLUS OF WHITE SUPREMACY IS IT IS PUSHING BACK RIGHT? WHEN IT HEARS THINGS LIKE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, IT SEES THAT WHITE SUPREMACY IS A FALSEHOOD RIGHT WHICH WE HAVE BEEN PROVING

FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, IT NEEDS TO PUSH BACK. I AGREE WITH MY PANELISTS THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS WHITE SUPREMACY HOLDING ON. IT'S A PART OF AMERICANS DNA. IT WAS HOW WE WERE CREATED

ON THE BACKS OF GENOCIDE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND ENSLAVING OF AFRICANS, AND IT IS AT OUR CORE WHO WE WERE. AS DEMOGRAPHICS CHANGE AS GENERATIONS BECOME MORE AND MORE OPEN TO THIS IDEA OF

EQUITY. I THINK WE'RE SEEING WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE SOCIAL JUSTICE CLAW BACKS, RIGHT, AND POWER STRUCTURE TRYING TO CLAW BACK THE WINS AND VICTORIES THAT WE HAVE HAD. >>

Crossley: ALL RIGHT I WANT TO START WITH SPECIFICS AND ASK YOU TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR AND LOOK FORWARD TO THIS YEAR IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. MALIA I'M

GOING TO STAY WITH YOU BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU POINTED OUT, AS FOLKS OF COLOR HAVE BEEN REALLY BATTLING THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN WORSE THAN OTHERS, IS THAT THE FEDERAL OFFICIALS ARE

ABOUT TO WEAN AWAY THE PANDEMIC MONEY, THE PANDEMIC SUPPORT MONEY AND WHERE WILL THAT LEAVE US THEN IN 2022 OR WHERE WILL THAT LEAVE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR? >> YOU KNOW, IT WILL LEAVE

US, WE KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO LEAVE US, RIGHT, CALLIE, IT WILL LEAVE US WITH LESS THAN WE HAVE NOW. IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT OUR ECONOMY IS COLOR-CODED AND THEREFORE THE PEOPLE

WHO ARE THE WORKING CLASS TEND TO BE MORE PEOPLE OF COLOR. AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE FOLKS WHO RELY ON THE SAFETY NETS OF THIS COUNTRY AND RIGHTLY SO. THEY -- YOU KNOW THEY HELP US BUILD

THIS COUNTRY AND GET VERY LITTLE OF THE UPSIDE OF AMERICAN CAPITALISM. SO WITHOUT GETTING THE CONTINUED SUPPORT I THINK US SEEING THIS BUILD BACK BETTER BILL AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT, YOU

KNOW, AS REALLY SEEING THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE ARETRENCHMENT OF TAX DOLLARS AND HELPING WORKING CLASS PEOPLE IS GOING TO DO NOTHING BUT CONTINUE TO HURT BLACK COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THIS

COUNTRY. >> Crossley: THE JOB NUMBERS HAVE COME OUT, 200,000 ADDED TO THE ROLLS, IT'S MUCH LESS THAN WAS EXPECTED, HOWEVER THESE ARE NUMBERS THAT DO NOT FACTOR IN THE OMICRON

IMPACT. SO WE CAN ASSUME THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH WORSE, LATER, WHEN WE FACTOR AURAL OF THAT IN, AFTER THEY FIGURE THAT ALL OUT. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT EVEN IF THE PERCENTAGE OF FOLKS WHO ARE

BACK TO WORK ARE, AS THEY ARE, IT'S DOUBLE THAT FOR BLACK FOLKS. SO LET ME TALK TO YOU RENEE ABOUT COVID WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE BEEN -- WITH WHICH WE KNOW IS CONNECTED TO

THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN. BUT YOU POINTED OUT THAT JUST EVEN MAKING A DECISION ABOUT HAVING FIRST NIGHT GO ON, YOU KNOW, IT'S FRAUGHT WITH ALL KINDS OF ISSUES. BASICALLY ON WHAT WE KNOW

AND HOW NOAKS OF COLOR WERE TREATED -- FOLKS OF COLOR WERE TREATED IN TERMS OF DIAGNOSIS, IN TERMS OF ACCESS TO MEDICATION IN 2021, WHAT'S YOUR PREDICTION FOR 2022? >> SAD THERE,

I SEE A LOT OF -- MORE OF THE SAME. I DON'T KNOW THAT ENOUGH HAS CHANGED TO MAKE THINGS LOOK ANY DIFFERENT THIS YEAR THAN THEY LOOKED IN 2021, OR THEY LOOKED IN 2020. THE SAME

DISPARITIES THAT PEOPLE SAW IN 5020, IN TERMS OF TREATMENT, ACCESS, YOU KNOW, NONE OF THAT HAS CHANGED. YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHO'S FILLING THESE HOSPITALS. AT THE SAME TIME, WE ALSO KNOW

WHO THE FRONT LINE WORKERS LOOK LIKE. AND WHAT THEY'RE ENDURING. IN THE WAYS THAT ESSENTIALLY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, A SENIOR OFFICIAL SAID THIS WEEK NO, THERE WON'T BE ANOTHER

COVID RELIEF PACKAGE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE THE INCENTIVE TO SIT AT HOME. THIS IDEA OF THE GOVERNMENT HELPING ITS CITIZENS DURING A PANDEMIC IS SOMEHOW AN UNWARRANTED

HANDOUT, SAYS A LOT ABOUT THIS COUNTRY WHICH SEEMS TO BE ALWAYS ABLE TO FIND MONEY FOR THE DEFENSE BUDGET OR THESE THINGS THAT MATTER TO THEM BUT DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR UNIVERSAL

CHILDCARE OR THE THINGS THAT WILL REALLY HELP PEOPLE. IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM SO THEY ARE HELPING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

SUFFERING THE MOST. >> Crossley: SO HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THAT COVID FATIGUE WILL FACTOR IN, IN A WAY THAT'S DETRIMENTAL TO COMMUNITIES OF COLOR? >> I MEAN LOOK, I THINK

PEOPLE CAN ALL ALL THE COVID FATIGUE THEY WANT. THEY MIGHT BE TIRED OF COVID BUT COVID IS CLEARLY NOT TIRED OF US. THIS WHOLE IDEA OF WE'RE TIRED OF THIS AND READY TO MOVE ON IS

IRRELEVANT. WE TOOK THE BLOWS EARLIER IN THE FALL AND IF YOU LOOK AT MASSACHUSETTS WHICH WAS GETTING CLOSE TO A THOUSAND CASES A DAY, MASSACHUSETTS IS NOW WELL OVER 20,000 CASES A DAY. AND

THIS IS A HIGHLY VACCINATED STATE. SO THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE READY TO MOVE ON, IT'S RIDICULOUS. IT MAKES NO SENSE. BECAUSE WE'RE STILL IN THE THROES, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY

IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS PANDEMIC, FRANKLY I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE AT THIS POINT, WE ARE STILL DEEPLY IN THE THROES OF THIS PANDEMIC. IT WILL DECIDE WHEN IT'S DONE WITH US, NOT WHEN

WE'RE DONE WITH IT. >> Crossley: PHILLIP YOU SAID THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A STEP BACK IN 2022. WHY? >> IF YOU SEE THE DEMONSTRATIONS THAT FOLLOWED THE DEATH OF GEORGE

FLOYD, THOSE THAT FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY IN MAY OF 2020 AND THE MONTHS AFTER THAT, YOU SAW EFFORTS BASICALLY AND LEGISLATION BASICALLY TO REFORM POLICE. YOU SAW ON THE TABLE, THE ISSUE OF

QUALIFIED IMMUNITY. SOMETHING WHICH HAD BEEN SEEN AS SACROSANCT PRIOR TO THE DEMONSTRATIONS. BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS, HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS FOR EXAMPLE WITH THE POLICE REFORM,

QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS OFF THE TABLE. IT'S NOT EVEN BEING DISCUSSED IN ANY SERIOUS SENSE AND THAT IS THE PRINCIPAL ISSUE THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR SHOULD BE CONCERNED IN RELATIONSHIP TO

POLICE. EVEN ON A STATE LIKE MINNESOTA WHERE THE MODERN MESKS OF BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT, THAT IS TO SAY, THAT WHICH CAME AFTER THE TRAYVON MARTIN DEMONSTRATION, SO ON SO FORTH, EVEN

THERE YOU SEE IT STEP GAK WARD IN ST. PAUL AND MINNEAPOLIS AND PLACE, WITH DILUTED, IF YOU DON'T HAVE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY ON THE ABLE THEN IT IS ABSOLUTELY PROBLEMATIC. HOW SERIOUS WE

ARE ABOUT TREATING POLICE VOIRNLS IN THIS -- VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY. >> RAHSAAN I WANT TO YOU PICK THAT UP BUT I WOULD PREF AS IT BY SAYING THERE WERE TWO COURT CASES THAT COULD BE

LOOKED AT AS VICTORY, ONE, DEREK CHAUVIN WAS CONVICTED OF THE KILLING OF POTTER AND KIM WRIGHT WAS CONVICTED OF SHOOTING DAUNTE RIGHT, BASED OPEN THAT, HOW DO YOU SEE WHAT MARTEN BE

HAPPENING WITH -- MAY OR MAY NOT BE, REFORM IN GENERAL? >> THOSE ARE INCREMENTAL CHANGES. IT HAS TO DO IN LARGE PART WITH THE SHIFTING OF THE PUBLIC NARRATIVE AROUND POLICE

ACCOUNTABILITY AND THIS NOTION THAT POLICE ARE BEYOND REPROACH. YOU NOW HAVE PROGRESSIVE PROSECUTORS AND PROSECUTORS MORE GENERALLY WHO ARE WILLING TO BRING CHARGES AGAINST POLICE OFFICERS,

WHERE BEFORE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE AN INVESTIGATION AND DETERMINED THAT THE OFFICER WAS JUSTIFIED IN THE SHOOTING. NOW WE'RE SEEING MORE OF THESE CASES AND THE NATIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS AND

POLICE VIOLENCE HAS CHANGED, WHERE A JURY MAY BE MORE INCLINED TO BELIEVE THAT AN OFFICER'S CONDUCT WAS CRIMINAL. THAT SAID, THAT DOES NOT OVERWHELMINGLY CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE OF POLICE

VIOLENCE, AND OUR RELIANCE ON THIS SYSTEM TO BRING ABOUT JUSTICE. JUSTICE IS THESE BLACK PEOPLE NOT BEING KILLED TO BEGIN WITH. SO FOR AS MUCH AS WE APPRECIATE THESE GUILTY VERDICTS AS A

SYMBOL OF SOME SORT OF PROGRESS IT DOESN'T GET TO THE UNDERLYING ISSUE OF THE NATURE OF POLICING AND POLICE VIOLENCE. AND IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO THE POTENTIAL RISE IN WHITE

VIGILANTISM, PARTICULARLY AFTER THE ACQUITTAL OF KYLE RITTENHOUSE, WHO IS CELEBRATED AS A HERO ON THE RIGHT, AM HE WAS KILLING WHITE PEOPLE, IT WAS WHITE PEOPLE STANDING UP IN DEFENSE OF THE

KILLING OF A BLACK PERSON. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE CONTENDED WITH, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE HIGH PRICED JURY CONSULTANTS THAT CAN CRAFT A CASE TO HELP SOMEBODY GET OFF

ON A CASE LIKE THAT. >> Crossley: HERE IS AN ISSUE THAT I THINK HAS NOT GOTTEN ENOUGH ATTENTION EVEN THOUGH IT IS QUITE SOBERING AND PARTICULARLY SOBERING FOR FOLKS OF COLOR IS VOTING

RIGHTS. WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER CHUCK SHURM SAYS HE IS REINTRODUCING THE BILL, THE JOHN LEWIS BILL WENT NOWHERE, BLATANT, THEY'RE NOT EVEN TRYING TO PRETEND

RENEE. SO WHAT HAPPENS, IT IS HARD FOR ME TO EVEN SAY THESE WORDS. WHAT HAPPENS IF NEITHER OF ANY OF THE EFFORTS IN CONGRESS GO THROUGH AND THERE YOU HAVE IT? I JUST -- I'M HAVING A

HARD TIME ACTUALLY GETTING MY MIND AND THAT. -- AROUND THAT. SO WHERE ARE WE WITH THAT? >> YOU KNOW THERE'S BEEN A STEADY EROSION IF YOU GO BACK TO 2013 SUPREME COURT DECISION OF

VOTING RIGHTS. IT'S THE WHOLE -- WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THEN IS THE GUTTING OF VOTING RIGHTS. SO NOW THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR FEDERAL PRECLEARANCE, STATES ARE DOING WHATEVER

THEY WANT TO DO. AS YOU SAID, IT'S NOT EVEN SULT. IT IS -- SUBTLE. IT IS BLATANT. THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO DROP KICK VOTING RIGHTS BACK TO THE JIM CROW ERA, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE

LOOKING AT. YOU'VE HAD PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT ACTUALLY SAY WELL EVERYONE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO VOTE. THAT VOTING IS A PRIVILEGE IT IS NOT A RIGHT. WHICH OF COURSE IS THE EXACT OPENS

OF THE TRUTH. -- OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH. VOTING IS A RIGHT, WE ARE ALL ALLOWED TO VOTE BUT THAT IS NOT TREND THAT IS TAKEN. I'M DISAPPOINTED WITH THE BIEMS, HE TALKED ABOUT VOTING

RIGHTS, I'M NOT SAYING HE DOESN'T SOMEWHERE A LOT ON HIS PLATE BUT REALLY, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE HAS ON HIS PLATE IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT, IS VOTING. IF YOU DON'T GET

THAT RIGHT, NOTHING ELSE WILL MATTER AND I JUST DON'T SOMEWHERE A GREATER SENSE OF THE URGENCY THAT IS NECESSARY TO DEAL WITH THIS. I THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO STOP PLAYING NICE

WITH THIS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS AT STAKE AND WHAT IS AT STAKE IS EVERYTHING. >> Crossley: MALIA WHAT WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT? >> YEAH, I MEAN AN AMEN AND A NOD. WOULD I FIRST ADD

TO IT. BUT I THINK WHAT RENEE BRINGS UP IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT WE WILL BE -- WE WILL GO BACK TO JIM CROW. AND DEMOCRATS WON'T WIN ANOTHER RACE. I THINK IT'S REALLY WILD TO

SEE HOW LACKADAISICAL DEMOCRATS ARE AT THE REDUCTION OF OUR RIGHTS, CONSIDERING THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE THEIR BASE. AND BLACK WOMEN IN PARTICULAR ARE THEIR BASE. I -- YOU KNOW FOR ME

IT'S BEEN VERY SURPRISING TO SEE HOW WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE A STRATEGY FORWARD FOR THIS VOTING RIGHTS BILL. AND SOMETHING THAT'S SO CRITICAL AND AS RENEE SAYS THAT MEANS

EVERYTHING TO SAVING OUR DEMOCRACY, RIGHT? ONCE AGAIN BLACK WOMEN WILL SAVE THE DAY. AS WE DID IN THE LAST ELECTION. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SEE STACY ABRAMS WHEN WEE SEE NATASHA BROWN, WHEN

WE SEE THESE WOMEN DOWN SOUTH FIGHTING FOR OUR RIGHTS TO VOTE, I THINK IT BECOMES VERY SCARY TO SEE THE INEFFECTIVENESS MAYBE EVEN, YOU KNOW, FEAR. OF PUSHING THIS BILL. I MEAN IF YOU ARE

NOT GOING TO LOSE POLITICAL CLOUT ON THIS WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO LOSE POLITICAL CLOUT ON, RIGHT? AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, IS THAT IF THESE VOTING RIGHTS

DON'T GO THROUGH, A HUGE SWATH OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE AND OF THE AMERICAN CITIZENS AND VOTERS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CAST THE BALLOT. AND WE CAN NO LONGER SAY THAT OUR ELECTIONS ARE FREE

AND FAIR. >> Crossley: WEIGH IN PHILLIP. >> YOU'RE AT 23 STRAITS, CALLIE, ABOUT 23 STATES HAVE PASSED SOME FORM OF VOTER RESTRICTIONS. GEORGIA FOR EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE

ESSENTIALLY PASSED LEGISLATION WHERE THEY CAN TAKE CURRENT ELECTION OFFICIALS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THEIR JOBS FOR YEARS, AFRICAN AMERICANS ACKNOWLEDGE,WHITE AMERICANS, DEMOCRATS

AND REPUBLICANS AND REPLACING THEM WITH TRUMP OPERATIVESFUL IT'S VERY SPECIFIC. LAWS ARE IN PLACE FOR 2022 AND 24 TO ALLOW, ESSENTIALLY, A COUP TO TAKE PLACE. IF THERE'S NO OTHER

WAY OF DESCRIBING IT. I THINK WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN IS I THINK JOE MANCHIN WHO OF COURSE IS THE LINCHPIN ON WHETHER OR NOT VOTING RIGHTS WILL SUCCEED OR NOT IN THIS COUNTRY WILL COME TO

SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE. THAT COMPROMISE HOWEVER MAY BE PROBLEMATIC IN ITSELF. BECAUSE IT MAY GET US SO FAR IN TERMS OF THE RIETD TO VOTE. AS RENEE SAID, IT'S A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE.

AND THE RIGHT TO VOTE ITSELF IS UNDER SIEGE. AND IT'S PART OF A LARGER THRUST TOWARDS AUTHORITARIANISM TO BASICALLY RID OURSELVES NOT JUST OF DEMOCRACY BUT A MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY. WE

DID NOT HAVE A MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY DURING JIM CROW AND WE DID NOT HAVE A MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY AT THE START OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. IT WAS ONLY AFTER CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION WAS --

AND VOTING RIGHTS WAS PASSED IN THIS COUNTRY AND THERE'S AN EFFORT RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S HAPPENING BUILT BY BIT, TO -- BUILT BY BIT TO ESSENTIALLY BRING US BACK TO A PRE-CIVIL RIGHTS

ERA. >> Crossley: JUST FOR FOLKS WHO NEED TO BE REMINDED JOE MANCHIN IS FROM WEST VIRGINIA, HE IS A DEMOCRAT. RAHSAAN PLEASE WEIGH IN.ABOUT. >> I THINK WHAT IS COMPOUNDED BY

THESE REGRESSIVE VOTING LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED IN SOME OF THESE STATES IS REDISTRICTING. FORTUNATELY HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS WE DID A GOOD I DON'TJOBOF THE DRAWING DEMOCRACY

INITIATIVE THAT I WAS A PART OF THAT MA'AM QUICKEN LOANS ARENA AND I WERE A PART OF TEN YEARS AGO, THAT WAS A GOOD THING. IN OTHER STATES WE'RE SEEING LEGISLATORS INTENTIONALLY

DILUTE MINORITY VOTING STRENGTH. AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING THESE LAWSUITS. AND THIS AGAIN IS WHY THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IS SO IMPORTANT. BECAUSE BEFORE SHELBY V V. HOLDER WAS

DECIDED BY THE SUPREME COURT, CERTAIN STATES HAD TO GET PREAPPROVAL TO DETERMINE IF IT WOULD DILUTE MINORITY VOTING STRENGTH. NOW THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. NOW THEY ARE CHANGING

DISTRICTS, DILUTING MINORITY VOTING POWER, THAT IS THE LEGAL TERM FOR IT AND NOW THERE HAS TO BE LITIGATION IN ALL OF THESE PLACES TO CHALLENGE IT AFTER IT'S ALREADY BEING INTRODUCED.

AND SO IT'S HARD ENOUGH THAT WE HAVE A HARD ENOUGH BARRIER TO OVERCOME WHILE PEOPLE ARE BEING PREVENTED FROM VOTING BUT THEN WHEN WE'RE PUT IN DISTRICTS WHERE EVEN IF WE CAN VOTE,

WE CAN'T ELECT A CANDIDATE OF OUR CHOICE THAT PUTS US FURTHER BACK. >> Crossley: WHAT'S SAID BY ALL OF YOU, IS THE IMPACT ON DEMOCRACY. I THINK PEOPLE HEAR THAT EXPRESSION

AND YOU THINK, I KIND OF SORT OF KNOW WHAT YOU MEANWHILE BUT IN CONCRETE TERMS FOR FOLKS OF COLOR WHETHER WE TALK ABOUT A LOSS OF DEMOCRACY OR A WATERING DOWN OF IT, IF YOU WILL, IN THIS

YEAR, CERTAINLY, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? >> I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE DECIMATION OF VOTING RIGHTS. I THINK WHAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND

IS THAT THIS COUNTRY CAN LOSE ITS DEMOCRACY. I HEARD SOMEONE SAY YES, THEY THINK IT WAS WOLF BLITZER ON CNN AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT JANUARY 6th. HE SAID, THAT WAS SOMETHING WE EXPECT TO

SEE IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES. AND THE IDEA WAS, WELL, SOMEHOW WE'RE ABOVE ALL THAT. THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE. IT IS HAPPENING HERE. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPOSSIBLE, PEOPLE

TO WRAP THEIR MINDS AROUND WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. NOT JUST THE INSURRECTION, AND THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE INSURRECTION AS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED. I ALWAYS

SAY NO, IT'S HAPPENING. IT'S STILT GOING ON AND IT'S HAPPENING IN REPUBLICAN LED LEGISLATURES WHERE THEY'RE NOT ONLY MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE, BUT

THEY'RE GOING TO RIG THE GAME ON THE OTHER SIDE AS WELL. SO EVEN IF YOU GET A CHANCE TO VOTE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T MATTER. THE PEOPLE

WHO COUNT THE VOTES ARE NOW GOING TO BE IN ON THE GAME AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT'S IF THING. THE IDEA THAT YOU HAVE ELECTIONS AND YOU CHOOSE YOUR LEADERS, AND THAT THAT MEARLTS,

IT'S -- MATTERS, IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR SO LONG FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS, NOT ALL AMERICANS WHICH IS PART OF THE PROBLEM, THAT IT IS I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY

WHAT'S AT STAKE AN THE URGENCY WITH WHICH WE NEED TO MEET THIS MOMENT. >> Crossley: AND CAN WE GET RID OF THE BIG LIE IN 2022? >> I THINK IT'S BEYOND THE BIG LIE AT

THIS POINT. I THINK THE BIG LIE IS ITS OWN THING. BUT, YOU KNOW, AMERICA'S BEEN A SERIES OF BIG LIES. YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO 2020 ELECTION AND WHAT TRUMP SAID IS JUST THE LATEST ONE.

IF THIS DEMOCRACY HAD BEEN IMPENETRABLE, WE WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN DONALD TRUMP. HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN A POSITION TO FIRE PEOPLE UP INTO AN INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL LAST YEAR.

IT WAS EVERYTHING THAT WASN'T DONE THAT IS SORT OF COMING TO ROOST NOW AND IT'S THE WAY WE HAVEN'T TAKEN CARE OF THIS DEMOCRACY AND MADE IT AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE IS WHY WE

ARE IN A POSITION WE ARE IN NOW. >> Crossley: WELL I THINK THAT'S MAYBE WHERE WE NEED TO LEAVE THAT AT THIS. BECAUSE THIS IS THE END OF IS OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

BUT WE HAVE MORE TO DISCUSS. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND NOW STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by

Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org